Meet A New Faculty Cancer Researcher

SPEAKER_01 0:01

If you aren't already on the wait list for the next cohort of K to R Essentials, head to our website to sign up so that you can be the first to hear all the details about the program and to get your questions answered. You can do that at Sarah Dobson.co slash K2R. That's S-A-R-A-H-D-O-B-S-O-N.co slash K number 2R. Today's episode is a conversation with a recent K to R Essentials graduate. These episodes are really special. They're a little longer than a typical episode you'll hear from me, and of course you get to hear directly from a former student about their experience in the program. The reason I love these conversations so much, aside from getting to chat with a graduate, is because it's one thing to hear me talk about the perspectives and tools that I teach inside K2R Essentials, but it's another thing entirely to hear someone who's applied those tools and perspectives in their own career and to hear what happened when they did. Here's our conversation. Welcome, welcome. Can you introduce yourself and share your pronouns and tell us a little bit about your area of research?

SPEAKER_00 1:09

Yeah, thanks for having me. My name is Deanne Tibbetts. I use she, her pronouns, and I'm an assistant professor at a cancer center in the Pacific Northwest. I just started my lab a couple months ago. I actually started out doing basic science research. My PhD is in genetics, and I worked in a cancer biology lab for my dissertation work. But in the last, oh, say five to ten years, I've transitioned into doing clinical research in the cancer survivorship space. So my research program is focused on reducing the burden of side effects from cancer treatment, in particular side effects of immunotherapy, by identifying person-centered risk factors and developing targeted interventions to improve quality of life for people living with cancer. And through that work, championing cancer care that takes care of the whole person.

Pivoting From Bench To Clinic

SPEAKER_01 2:00

Deanne, can you say a little bit more about that transition from basic science to clinical research and how you how you ended up doing that?

SPEAKER_00 2:09

Yeah, so I um I you know I have sort of what I call a um non-traditional trajectory into my current role. Um I wanted to be a scientist for as long as I can remember. You know, going all the way back to grade school, I was one of those, you know, doing the science fair in you know, fifth grade kind of things. Um but uh and so I I was always interested in um in like how things work and uh got really into genetics and molecular biology in like my classes in high school, and so I ended up um pursuing that in my PhD program. And the transition into clinical research um was really like really came out of a formative experience I had right after graduate school where I spent a few years teaching at a naturopathic college. Um and since my PhD was very molecular biology focused, um, that environment really got me interested in factors that were um like expanding out beyond just like pure biology and thinking more broadly about factors that contribute to cancer development and treatment outcomes. So, more like a biopsychosocial model and way of looking at things. So when I quit teaching and went back into research, I decided to make a pivot into clinical research and wanting to understand like how a more holistic set of factors affect how people respond to cancer treatments, um, what kind of side effects they develop, how we can better support people going through this incredibly hard thing. Um, so my research program now is really focused on those kinds of questions for people who are receiving this newer kind of cancer therapy, um, immunotherapy, that we don't know as much about as we do things that have been around for a long time, like chemotherapy and radiation, those kinds of things.

The K Award Research Focus

SPEAKER_01 4:02

Yeah. And can you talk a little bit about how your K award factors into all this, your K Ward journey factors into all of this?

Why Outside Structure Helps

SPEAKER_00 4:14

Yeah, so um I had um I had taken a postdoc in uh clinical research uh cancer survivorship lab and had some really amazing mentorship there, and that um catapulted me into being competitive for an institutional K award in a women's health-focused program. And so I proposed a clinical research study that would allow me to follow people while they were undergoing this particular type of cancer therapy, this immunotherapy, um, and collect information about their side effects. And the question that I was trying to answer was whether side effects were different or worse for female versus male patients, because there's a lot that we don't know about how biological sex factors into the way people respond to cancer therapies. And so there's been um some really provocative um articles written looking retrospectively, um, like you know, mining data from studies that um have already been conducted, but there's not a lot of um studies that prospectively collect data and ask that kind of question. So that was what my K award is focused on.

SPEAKER_01 5:26

So and as you were kicking off that work, can you sort of cast your mind back to that time and remember some of the let's call them peripheral challenges you you might have been dealing with? And of course, what I'm getting at is what led you to be interested in a program like K to R Essentials?

SPEAKER_00 5:55

Yeah, so there was um there was a period of time in my K award where I got together with um, you know, the other folks in my program, because as an institutional K award, you kind of um there it's like a training grant where there's slots. So there were a few of us that started together and we were all kind of embarking on this K award process at the same time, and we were um getting together to do goal setting and um keep it keep each other accountable for you know like what our weekly um you know like goals and activities that we wanted to accomplish were. Um, so we had developed kind of a peer accountability system, and so I already had some of the the tools in place for like time management and annual planning and like those kinds of things, um, and had you know a lot of experience writing grants. Um but at the time I think what I really wanted was to was to understand how to move into that like transition from that like I'm focused on this project to I have this research program and thinking about how the K award fit into like how to zoom out and and think more about your research program. So I think I was in a place where I was learning that I would need to kind of take that bigger step, you know, backwards and think more broadly about my work. Um and so that was part of the reason that I was interested in the program. Um the other element to that is that um toward the end of my K award, I was also um I also went on the job market because I was in sort of a um, you know, instructor, research assistant professor, uh research associate, one of those like holding pattern kind of um positions before people are in a tenure track role. And so I went on the job market in the year uh that I participated in the program. Um and that was also helping me see that I, you know, needed to think more broadly about my research program and what I wanted to accomplish. So um so those are some of the some of the elements that were in play at the time.

SPEAKER_01 8:08

Yeah, well we'll we'll get to the job search in a bit, but but I just want to stay on this for a moment because this is something um something that I think is pretty normalized in academic spaces, is like you know, figure it out yourself. Like you're you know, you're you're smart and capable, and and why would you need outside support for something like that? So can you speak a little bit to what you fit felt that you weren't equipped to do on your own or were maybe just looking for support around when it came to thinking more broadly, as you said, about your your program of research? Like why was that something that you didn't feel you could tackle on your own?

SPEAKER_00 9:03

Yeah, that's a great question. Um, I mean, I think, you know, I was really and and am still really um grateful that I have some good mentors around me and they had given me bits and pieces. You know, I had someone who encouraged me to write a mission statement for myself and gave me some examples and things, and um I don't know that it like and I did, and it it it was hard. Um but so I so I had that as like a nugget, and then I had like other random nuggets from from mentors about things that I might want to um consider. I think the the thing that attracted me to the program was that it offered like a larger framework to think about making that transition. Um and I am a person who has kind of always loved like a formal education kind of setting. Like I love to take classes and be taught things in that way. Um, and so the idea of of having an introduction to a framework about how to make that transition was appealing to me for both those reasons. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:09

Yeah. One of the things, this I mean, this is a sidebar, but one of the things I find most fascinating about the uh individuals who end up in K to R Essentials is there seem to be two camps. One is is folks like you who are who are looking for that structure and the sort of container and and curriculum around how to achieve the goals that they set for themselves. And then there is another camp of people who are more sort of like, I I know that I need something, but I don't know quite what it is, and I just know that this like that I'll that this space will help me figure out what it is that I need. And so you get these, um I think, and it makes such an interesting blend of individuals in the program too. The the ones who are uh who are looking for that uh structure, and the ones who are more like, I'll I'll figure it out as I go. Um, but but that the the container can support both camps, I think is uh it's really lovely because the the personalities in each of those camps can tend to be quite different as well. So yeah, it just I think for me as the uh as the guide, as the instructor, that makes it really, really fun. So you mentioned that one of your goals for being in the program was to think more broadly about your program of research. What was there anything else that you wanted to accomplish in the program or that you were hoping to accomplish in the program?

SPEAKER_00 11:48

Yeah, I think um my explicit reason for signing up was because I knew I was going to need to tackle writing an R01 and I didn't know how to get started. So I think that if I if you asked me at the time that I signed up, that would have been my answer. I'm a little like revising my answer in advance, knowing what I got out of it, um, to tell you about the whole, you know, think how to think about my research program piece. Um, but I think at the time that I signed up, that was really that was really the driver for me was like I have this thing that I know I'm going to need to do. And I, and again, like I have great mentors around me who are giving me nuggets that are helpful, but I'm still not 100% sure how to tackle this big mountain I need to climb.

North Star Meets Specific Aims

SPEAKER_01 12:36

Yeah. Well, on that note, one of one of the other things I find so fascinating about graduates of the program is that the the transformation that they go through is so enormous that they can't even really remember what what they came in for in the first place, or or the reason that they came in the first place seems so irrelevant to where they ultimately ended up. So it makes complete sense to me that you would say, Yeah, I've revised uh the goals in retrospect, but um, but yeah, you still remember at the time that that's uh that that's what you came in for. So what did you get out of being in the program?

SPEAKER_00 13:16

Yeah, I think um there were many things. Um I think the I think the the first thing that I learned, because the first thing you have us do is this North Star activity where we get really clear about like where are we headed, what do we, what is it that we feel unique, uniquely motivated to solve or make better in the world. And I learned immediately that I my net was way too broad because you give us feedback about the the North Star. Um and so and I think that's a that's a function of the sort of moment in time that I was at where I had grants and things going in two different directions, and I was trying to cast a net over both of those research directions. And the truth is only one of those research directions was really lighting me up. And it wasn't until, you know, I had that pointed out to me that, like, maybe you're maybe you're spread a little across, you know, too many things here was I really able to get in touch with the fact that actually, like, if I listen to myself, I really am lit up about one of these things and way less so about the other one. Um, even though I used to be lit up about the other, you know, it's like a evolution in what I was excited about from a research standpoint. So I think really doing that activity and recognizing that um I was more lit up about one element, one aspect of the work that I was doing than than other elements was um was an important realization. Um I think probably the the biggest the biggest takeaway for me um there was a um there was a module where you introduced the um your framework for how to write a specific AIMS page, which is this problem gap hook solution, um which I know you you incorporate into many of your other grant writing workshops. And in fact, um everyone around me is sick of hearing me talk about gap hook solution. We have a writing, oh my god. Well, we um we had a our our K-12 program had our uh has a writing uh group that gets together every two weeks and we review each other's work. And every time somebody would bring an AIMS page, they knew exactly what I was gonna say. And anyway, it was really um people have heard about this too many times for me. But anyway, so you introduced this in the program because it's part of you know trade like transitioning K to R, you're you're needing to think about working toward that um that R01 AIMS page. And so the aha moment for me was you present the framework, which I'm familiar with and use a lot, and you connected the problem of the problem gap hook solution, you connect the problem to the North Star activity. And that just blew my mind. Like that was the missing piece for me, because I think the reason that I was having such a hard time understanding like how to approach the R01 is that I was I was viewing it as this like isolated scientific problem that you wanted to study, but it's not that it's this like your R0, and like I mean, all of your grants really like they're emerging from the ecosystem of your work. They're not like this isolated thing, mountain or whatever, situated in um they're really part of the landscape that your North Star is. Um, and so that that was a huge takeaway for me because it made the connection between well, how do I pick the idea I want to work on and how you know what it just took all the nebulousness of it and it was like, well, it's underneath your North Star, so it's it's whatever the next big juicy problem is that you want to tackle underneath that, underneath where you're going. And so that was a big, that was a big takeaway for me.

SPEAKER_01 17:21

Any other lessons you learned that you didn't realize you needed to learn?

SPEAKER_00 17:28

Um yeah, actually, um, I think the the golden goose metaphor that you use was a really big one also, and that came out of nowhere um for me, and it was like that was a really big one for me to wrestle with because I think, especially when I was in a moment where like I was still in the job market and I didn't have anything nailed down yet, like the the idea that like I am this valuable worthy vehicle for you know this research program that I want to have a particular impact in the world, like that is the thing that I'm bringing. And all of these tools like time blocking and annual planning, quarterly planning, strategies for how to say no, like you know, all of these like tools, they're not just tools for their own sake, they're there in service of keeping you working at your best so that you can do the work that only you can do, right? So I think that like seeing yourself as that golden goose, I think was a really that was a big mindset shift for me. Um, and so all of the like self-care and boundaries and how to protect your time, like those are those are helping you create an environment where you're mentally, emotionally, intellectually thriving, and then able to be creative and productive and you know do the work that you want to bring into the world. So I think that was big to me.

Protecting The Golden Goose

Surviving The Academic Job Market

SPEAKER_01 19:03

It's like time management and boundaries to what end, right? And the to what end piece is the is your own capacity, your own energy, and that that golden goose that we talked about. Yeah, absolutely. Are you are you willing to talk about your experience on the job market and what that was like for you as you were going through the program?

SPEAKER_00 19:24

Yes, I can. Um it was, I mean, 2025 has been a hard year to be in research as a profession. I'll just leave it there. Um, so I think I think it was a difficult time to be on the job market, and I'm I am so grateful that I landed on my feet. Um, but it was you know a good nine months of uncertainty. And when you're staring down the end of your K award and that's paying for pretty much all of your salary, like that's a scary like place to be. Um so I debated about whether joining the program, whether it was the right time for that, given you know, that I wasn't sure what was coming up for me, and I felt a little distracted around trying to navigate those other things. Um, cultivating like backup plan B, C, D, you know, not just plan A. Um so I think there was that piece, which was all the uncertainty and the time that it took for things to play out. And then there was, I think, what being on the job market taught me, which was to not just think about like this one project that I'm doing, but to try to conceptualize my work and then to go out and pitch myself. Because, you know, when you get an interview and you're like, you know, they want to know what do you do and what are you bringing, and you know, and you you can't be shy about that, like you need to tell them. Like they, you know, you have to tell them. So I think I think going through the process of being on the job market was really good for me because it gave me that confidence of like, oh, wow, okay, no, people really are interested in what I'm doing, and they think that I have all this potential. And, you know, I somewhere deep down think I have it too. Otherwise, I wouldn't be in this for so long. But it's really validating to see it reflected in other people wanting you to come and like, hey, come give a talk. Like, we're really interested in your work, and you know, all of those kinds of things. So um, so it was a little, you know, it was a mixed experience because I think of the timing. Um, but I think ultimately, I think it was a really good like development experience for me. Um because now I have all of that personal growth that happened through the process.

SPEAKER_01 21:43

Yeah. Did any did you draw on any of the the tools in the program as you were going through the the job search chop talk process?

unknown 21:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:00

Um, that's a great question. I was in the program kind of in the the final like four months of that period. I think on our very last coaching call, I think I was able to share that I had finally gotten an offer letter, um which was amazing. Um so I think I think going back to the golden goose idea, I think um navigating the uncertainty while I was in the program and having that messaging like sitting on my shoulder about like, you know, regardless of what happens here, like you still are the golden goose, like your work is still worthy, and you have this unique set of skills and enthusiasm and passion to bring to bear on this really important problem. And you know, none of none of how this turns out is a reflection on you. Some of this is just timing and the way that things are happening at this moment. Um so I think I think some of it was like emotional fortitude and like remembering those lessons. Um yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:17

Yeah, and and I'm curious as well, just about the experience you had in the program in in the the very unique and specific time that you were in the program, right? Like 2025 amidst all of the chaos and turbulence and uncertainty with academic institutions, with NIH. What was it like to be in the program during all of that?

How To Get More From K2R

SPEAKER_00 23:54

Yeah, that's a really great, that's a really great question. I think there are basically two, I think there's a sort of individual reflection I have, and then more of like a collective reflection. The the individual reflection is um I mentioned earlier that it was I I waffled a lot about whether to whether it was the right time to join the program, not from like a career trajectory, because like I was in the last year of this three-year K program. I was looking at writing an R soon. Like it was like professionally, it felt like the right time in terms of like progression, but the the environmental elements made me question whether it was the right time. And so at the end of the day, I decided to to do it because I felt like the skills and the structure would benefit me regardless of how the job search turned out, and regardless of like what other you know things I might need to um navigate uh later in the year, depending on how things turned out. So this idea that like I should just bet on myself and go into the program and get what I need, um, I think was a that was a really important piece for me in this, especially in this like 2025 experience that we're all having. Um so I think that was navigating that piece and deciding, yes, let's move forward, let's bet on myself and and get what I what I really want to get in in this like correct, you know, like appropriate, like now is the time, grab the bull by the horns and do it kind of a way. Um the collective thing that I will say is that the coaching calls are this lovely community environment and being able to have a group of people who you know you're gonna see every couple weeks, and there's this lovely container that we're all like in together, um, both from a you know personal growth standpoint, but also because we're all navigating the same 2025 experience. Um, and you know, there were people who had some really hard things happen in their professional lives that we tried to be supportive and and give them a space to talk about and process if they wanted. Um and you know, I think having that community piece was also especially in this, you know, in this academic year was really helpful.

SPEAKER_01 26:35

So Dan, what advice would you give to somebody who's considering joining KDR Essentials about how to make the most of their time in the program?

SPEAKER_00 26:50

Yeah, um I think I have a I have a couple of thoughts about that. I think uh we were just talking about the coaching calls. I think there were more people in the program than came to the coaching calls on a regular basis, and I'm sure some of that's scheduling and you know, just um, which is understandable. But I think if it's possible to make the coaching calls in like synchronously, like in real time, then like I I got so much out of being in community with everyone. I and even if it was just the the wins and lessons, you know, part or the other content that was relevant to the part of the program that we were in that month, um, or you know, for that particular session, I always learned something from the other women who were in the program. It was like I always got like some new angle that I hadn't thought of, or some new way of looking at things. And um, that was always really valuable to me. Um, and I think also just being able to see and celebrate other people's successes was also really, really great. So I think the coaching calls, I would encourage people to attend them if they're able to make them. Um the other, the other thing that I I think would be is really good to keep in mind to get a lot out of the program is it's very dense. There's a lot of content, and you're not gonna absorb it all. Like it's you're not gonna be an expert practitioner the first time through. I know you set that expectation at the beginning, which is understandable and reasonable. Um, but I think I think letting it all wash over you and realizing that you know you're gonna get a lot out of it, and you can go back and revisit the material. I can't tell you how many notes I have from, you know, I'm I'm like a paper person, so I have just notebooks full of all the things. Um and once so I I haven't told you this, but once I got my faculty position, I actually took myself on a retreat and I went back through all the materials and I revised my North Star. I got really clear about projects that are aligned and not aligned. Um, it's helping me figure out how I want to staff my lab. Um, and like, you know, that's stuff that I wouldn't have been able to get the first time through. Like those are those are second absorption, second level absorption sort of of things. So I think um I think recognizing that like there are a lot of layers here. And so being okay with, you know, getting what you can out of it the first time will be valuable and that you can always revisit the materials and they'll land differently, you know, once you have absorbed that first that first layer. So I think that um I think that's another another piece that would be helpful.

SPEAKER_01 29:42

Yeah, great advice. Is there anything else you want to add before we wrap up today?

SPEAKER_00 29:51

Um I think I mean, I you know, would love to just say thank you for creating this container and this structure. Um it was transformative for me in all the ways that I already described, but I think um this the K to R like period of time is such a it feels like a very um delicate moment for people in an academic career. And I think having tools to be able to successfully navigate that transition um is really critical. And so what you've created is I think really special in that way, um, both because of the need that it meets, but also um because you know, I think it's helping, it's helping me, it helped me, is helping me like really confidently like walk into this space, which is a really, I mean, academic career is not for the faint-hearted, and none of us do this for the money, right? Like we're here because we care about what we work on and the people that we're helping and um and you know the the scientific problems that we're um that we're focused on. So I I think um being able to fall back on on all of those tools in this really delicate career transition period is um is just really helpful. So it's a lot of gratitude.

Free Resources And Closing

SPEAKER_01 31:15

Well, thank you. And it was such a joy to have you in the program. And I have to say that on that last coaching call where you were able to announce to everybody after such a long time that uh that everything went through, it was, I mean, I remember how emotional it was for all of us because we'd been we'd been rooting for you the whole time, and I'm getting emotional just thinking about it right now. But that especially at that particular moment, I think we all just needed some good news, and it was it was so wonderful to be able to celebrate that with you. Um yeah, and I know that um for me it was really meaningful and for the group as well, and of course, it's um it's great to talk to you a few months later and and see you established in your new office, and um yeah, it's just that was that was a really meaningful moment for me personally that I'm gonna carry with me. So thank you. Thank you for being there and and offering that to all of us. I was able to. Yeah, I bet you are, yeah. Yeah. Well, Deanne, thank you so much for your time today. Uh, thank you for sharing your experience and your insights. And yeah, congratulations again on that fresh new faculty. I mean, it's not that new at this point, but must still feel pretty new. Um congratulations on that, and uh, I'll certainly be keeping track of your success and progress. But I hope that you'll uh I hope that you'll stay in touch and and let me know how things are going. For sure. Thanks so much for having me. This has been great. Thanks for listening to this episode of Significant Impact, from K Award to your first big R01. If you want to dig deeper into what we learned today and move a significant step closer to a smooth K-2R transition, visit Sarah Dobson.co slash pod and check out all the free stuff we have to help you do just that. Don't forget to subscribe to the show to make sure you hear new episodes as soon as they're released. And if today's episode made you think of a colleague or a friend, please tell them about it. Tune in next time and thanks again for listening.